Curse

Xellos · Apr 21, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Their tombs team makes mistakes :P I got 3 of them, granted casters but 3 before my PUG died!

Hado · Apr 22, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Heh. Didn't I say it'd be all about the War/Mo's and Mo/*'s? I could've told you what they'd be running 6 months ago, when PFB was facing the exact same thing in the HoH.

And I can tell you right now, that until enchantment removal options (and counters to defensive skills like Rigor Mortis vs Evasion/blocking) are fixed (ie boosted in a major way), every team that manages to achieve the #1 spot will be running the exact same setup.

Seriously, when people finally realize how broken the counters to wards/mass monk/cross enchant/healing spam/mass remove hex/sustained DPS builds are, every competitive team and their mothers will be running teams based around utter defense.. which generally means more Monks and War/Mo's.. gee, what else is new?

Look forward to more games where it takes 10+ minutes to kill one person, coming to a GW match near you!

KamiCrazy · Apr 22, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

What KOR did has been done by negative zero in alpha.

Its nothing special, you really have to understand that in the USA metagame environment no one expected anyone to come in with 4 warriors who didn't focus fire.

And thats the thing here, its not the build which made them good it was their movement and strategy. If you don't take counters to warriors then you're just asking to be beaten by them and thats what happened.

Anyone trying to copy KOR is going to have far less success then them simply because KOR plays the game far better then even the other top guilds.

The build KOR took into the korean tourney consisted of 3 rangers for DPS and didn't rely on enchantments at all. Which is a far cry to what they were running in the BWE. The reason why they didn't run that ranger build anymore is because it got nerfed, which is also the reason why they lost the tourney costing them $30K USD.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Apr 22, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enix

I seriously hope that the W/Mo build dosent totally dominate this game.

It would be nice if Necros were given some spells specifically to jack up Monks, since Necros arent very popular.

I nearly always use a necro as a part of my chars, either primary or secondary... normaly secondary... My necro can "jack up" monks pretty good with strip enchantment.

Grimpaw · Apr 22, 2005, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Interesting discussion. I also think hexes and conditions are doing well. Enchantments are more tricky because of their mainly defensive nature, maintenance and variety of recast times.

However, here is a crazy idea for enchantments:

What if enchantment removal was FIFO (first in, first out). So there would be no chaff enchantments, you remove the first cast, not the last.

This might make the "heavy" enchantments with long recharges practically worthless though, at least on any target likely to be focused.

sama · Apr 22, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimpaw

However, here is a crazy idea for enchantments:

What if enchantment removal was FIFO (first in, first out). So there would be no chaff enchantments, you remove the first cast, not the last.

This might make the "heavy" enchantments with long recharges practically worthless though, at least on any target likely to be focused.

Err, i would cast them the other way...

Grimpaw · Apr 22, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Most of the chaff enchantments don't last all that long.

FIFO would make RoF, HB, Vigorous Spirirt, and some of the other chaff enchants much less effective (as chaff).

tektonik · Apr 22, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamiCrazy

What KOR did has been done by negative zero in alpha.

Its nothing special, you really have to understand that in the USA metagame environment no one expected anyone to come in with 4 warriors who didn't focus fire.

If you think thats all KOR did I am sorry but I will be exceptionally humbled if you are n0 and think this. LAWLZ

syir

Apr 22, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Just take whatever he says lightly. He is pretty delusional about enchantments and enchantment removal in the first place as he didnt even notice KOR running around with Warriors stacked to high heaven and target switching not being an effective option.

KamiCrazy · Apr 23, 2005, 12:33 AM // 00:33

I am in n0, but why does that matter? I could be in any guild, as long as I've had experience fighting KOR and watching their movement and tactics you notice that you worry about their tactics first. Then their build second.

Most of their monks survivability for instance comes from their ability to kite you, to move you into unfavourable positions and their very careful positioning. The only serious enchantment stacking they did was using smiting enchants to crank up melee damage.

Their DPS warriors have good movement as well, with quick careful target switching if they found a target too difficult to kill, or if it was too enchanted to make it not worthwhile. They co-ordinated their attacks so when someone got low, they swarmed it and focused it to death.

KOR showed n0 that build isn't everything and sure enough we took that lesson to heart and put much effort into tactics lately.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 23, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

I don't really find the game too imbalanced. Admittedly, a team with 3 monks probably beat one with only 2. And one with 2 will always beat one with only 1. It's a bit too defensively minded. But it's not hard to a dismiss a monk or monks even if only one person is doing it. The problem arises when there are 2 more healing the one you're trying to kill.

As for Warrior/Monks. Easy target. Any competant player can take them out.

sino-soviet · Apr 23, 2005, 12:47 AM // 00:47

I dont understand why some people here think of warrior/monks as being a good target for energy denial..

Diamondspider · Apr 23, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Well Kamicrazy, although I've only logged about 20 hours of PvP in GW, for what it is worth, you've convinced me.

Your arguments are very clear, focused, and match my own experiences very closely.

In any case, I HOPE you are 100% right because, if you are, then GW is very well balanced indeed. The focus SHOULD be on things like positioning, targeting, and such. That is where skill shines and skill is always the name of any game worth playing.